We Are Selling with Lee Woodward
We Are Selling is a weekly podcast about real estate, business and tackling life's challenges. Hosted by renowned real estate industry coach, Lee Woodward, learn from experts in their field and maximise your life.
We Are Selling with Lee Woodward
160 - Athletes in Business: How Sports Discipline Transforms Success in Property Sales
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The parallels between professional sports and high-performance real estate are striking, especially when viewed through the journey of someone who's excelled in both arenas. Cameron Cullum's transformation from NRL footballer to leading property agent offers a masterclass in transferable skills, resilience, and strategic team building.
Cameron spent years in the trenches of professional rugby, enduring five gruelling NRL pre-seasons before finally making his debut at 22. This extended apprenticeship taught him patience and perseverance that would later become cornerstone qualities in his real estate career. A chance meeting with established agent Andrew Reibelt opened the door to property sales – a field where Cameron would discover his second professional calling.
What makes his story particularly compelling is the methodical way he approached growth. Starting as an associate who "never had to find business," Cameron had to develop prospecting skills from scratch when launching his own operation under the "supported by Image" model. His first year generated an impressive $330,000 in commission, but what followed demonstrates his exceptional capacity for continuous improvement. Today, his three-person team targets $1.6 million annually with a disciplined approach to accountability and performance.
Perhaps most instructive is Cameron's team-building philosophy. Rather than seeking experienced agents, he prioritises mindset – hiring individuals like Sheldon, whom he observed completing the challenging "75 Hard" program while working at the local council. This emphasis on discipline and commitment over industry background has created a high-performance culture where teammates hold each other accountable while remaining supportive.
Want to build a real estate business that consistently outperforms? Listen to Cameron's insights on creating clear targets, developing resilience through rejection, and applying sporting principles to property sales. This episode offers a roadmap for transforming determination and disciplined habits into exceptional results, regardless of your starting point in the industry.
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Hello and welcome back to the podcast we Are Selling. My name's Lee Woodward, the author of the Complete Salesperson course. Today's podcast is brought to you by our sponsor, Nexar. Nexar is a dedicated real estate platform specializing in lead generation and database management of the entire real estate company for BDMs and agents. Working as one platform to generate opportunity. Nexar seamlessly integrates into your business systems, allowing you to have an extended solution. Let's get started with this week's episode. Joining us today is Cameron Cullum of Image Property in Brisbane. He joins us now, Cameron. Welcome to the program. Thanks, Lee. Thanks for having me. Thank you for coming on, and most of the people in the group know you well. We've got some future agents joining us that may not know you. Take us through your background because you were an NRL star. Take us into that first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's my background, mate, sports rugby league. I played in the NRL. I managed to get 10 games overall, but it was probably a seven or eight-year period of my life. It's been from when I left school to when I left the game that I was just doing NRL pre-seasons and trying to crack it, and very grateful that I did get the opportunity to do that, mate. And you know, sort of took me around the country playing footy and then ended up coming back to the peninsula to play for Redcliffe and that's when I sort of jumped into into real estate.
Speaker 1:Take us into that time when you were trying to crack it because you know you left school, everything was football, this is your career, this is what you going to do, and you got so close with some of those teams but didn't make it. How did you feel at that time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate, it was. It's a tough one. Hey, it's why I mean, I obviously watch rugby league and see a lot of young players in the same sort of position, and for me it becomes yourself, like my identity was rugby league and all I wanted to do was crack it. So like going to the broncos and um spent three years there and wasn't able to crack it. Went to the cowboys, which was a great experience, but again wasn't able to crack it. It really is hard and there's a lot of talk about, you know, I think that's where you lose a lot of kids to the game, because it can be so disheartening wanting to achieve a dream like that for so long, but just just just missing out. So it was hard, mate. I think it taught me some really good life lessons around resilience and that type of thing where, although I didn't get to, you know, achieve it, at some periods I felt like it sort of I was always kept the hunger to make it happen. And eventually I got the opportunity, mate, and I took it with both hands.
Speaker 1:And that opportunity was at the Titans before going to Manly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, correct, yeah, at the Titans. So I was able to play five games for Titans and then I went down to Manly and played five games down there the following year, and it's amazing how environment is so different.
Speaker 1:The Sydney world to the Queensland world. It is a different space, a different place. I would imagine you love the club, but how did you find the Sydney world?
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate, very different, very different. Like I grew up at Cabrita Beach, a small little town down in northern New South Wales and I mean even the peninsula. It's such a cruisy lifestyle so to be thrown into the rat race lifestyle of Sydney and I was living on the northern beaches in Dewell. It's a beautiful place, the club was awesome. A lot of the people I met at that club I'm still good friends with now. But yeah, the lifestyle was hard, mate. My partner had to work full time, we had to have our one-year-old in daycare full time and it was a hard lifestyle, for sure. But again, they're the sort of sacrifices you make to try and achieve a dream like that and play at the top level. And we did that, mate. And then you know, we wanted to come home, we wanted to be around family and that's ultimately what we did when we moved back to Redcliffe.
Speaker 1:An amazing story so far. And what a small world. I spent my entire real estate career in DY. Yeah, true, yep, I was living at Collaroy and going to the Manly Games, so that whole world I know so well. And then suddenly you end up in a different space. Take us into the start in real estate, because you were with Andrew Rybelt and you had a defining moment of your career when you met Joel Davis. What happened there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, I mean, you know, I guess firstly, andrew Riebel giving me the opportunity to jump into real estate was probably pretty defining, because I remember just I did my ACL, so I was full-time with Redcliffe Dolphins and had sort of no plans of working, to be honest. So just the sliding doors moments are pretty interesting. But I did my ACL one week before the season started in 2019. So it forced me to have a full year off footy and forced me to think what am I going to do? And so 2019 season, the season launch.
Speaker 2:A couple of days after I did it, I sat next to Andrew Rybelt and I said, mate, I'd already had my own property investment company and I was working with athletes in that space to try and help them sort of set themselves up. So I I was always interested in it. Um, but I just asked Ruby, I just said, mate, would you, would you be open to giving me a couple of days a week? And he said I'll have to see man, I don't really have a spot. And he sort of made a spot for me to do a couple of days a week. And then, all sudden, you know, I was his associate and I was full-time with him.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, I think it was about a year later Joel purchased his rent role and we sort of made the move over to Image Property, myself and Andrew. And you know, not long after that they brought out the supporter by Image Model and I went out on my own. So it all happened pretty quickly, mate, I'm certainly grateful for for andrew to give me the opportunity um and image property as a as a whole, like meeting meeting joel davis, meeting corinne, like they're such an awesome family and I was at a real crossroads in terms of my own life and what my identity and I've just been a footballer all my life and that that had finished and um for me to jump into another industry, um, meet people like that and be able to achieve goals in that industry, yeah, very grateful. I got that opportunity when I did.
Speaker 1:And how interesting. Like Andrew Rybelt, he is first grade of real estate. So you did crack first grade playing alongside some of the best players, and Joel and the other, adam and the whole team now have become this one of the best teams in the country. And again, I do these podcasts because sometimes you guys can't read the label from inside the jar. You're actually in there, but what's going on in that company is absolutely amazing. So take me into the first year, out by yourself. What was that like and what sort of numbers were you doing?
Speaker 2:Mate, it was very, very challenging. I remember meeting with Andrew to let him know, mate, I'm gonna. I think I was the second person that joined the supported by image model. Um, I've been with andrew for a year and I sort of remember like having a meeting with him, which which, for me, was hard in itself because I'm a very loyal person like I.
Speaker 2:Really, I find it hard to make change, especially when I was like happy, but I always had this, I guess, driving me, that I wanted to wanted to be, you know, have my own business, and wanted to go further than than where I was.
Speaker 2:So, um, it was probably inevitable that it was going to happen, but made the, the week that I left the salary and bonuses and everything that sort of made me happy. Um, I turned on the TV and heard this rumor about this flu and you know, this COVID thing, and the phones stopped ringing and I was thinking to myself this is me, this is my luck. I've literally this is going to shut down the whole industry and I've just left a secure wage and bonuses and all of the things that would make someone pretty secure to go out on my own. And, yeah, phones stopped ringing for a couple of weeks, mate, so it was a bit scary. But I mean, as you know, the property market boomed as of that sort of period of time and I was in the right place, right time and I think taking the leap when I did it forced me to sort of sink or swim, which was good.
Speaker 1:And what were some of the numbers in that first year for you.
Speaker 2:Numbers in terms of comms. I think I did 330 in year one. I'm not sure how many sales I got made. I can't remember now, but I do remember 330 was the income. That's a very good number.
Speaker 1:And then from there, where did you progress to after that and what changed in you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, from there it was probably a really sort of big learning curve for me year one on my own, because, again, you go from, especially with someone like Andrew, like he was very much the person that would go out and get the listings and you know he was very well known on the peninsula. So to be his associate, I really never had to find business. I definitely did a lot of buyer work and learned a lot of things, but finding business probably wasn't a role that I needed to have because Andrew would do that for us. So, going out on my own, I immediately realized that if I don't find business I'm not going to get paid and that was probably the biggest thing that I had to learn is prospecting and accountability and all the things that allow you to get some opportunities. And I guess that was, yeah, that was probably my biggest learning of year one. And then, yeah, I guess, progressing from there, mate, and again the whole thing of I've always been someone that's really not happy, like to just be content.
Speaker 2:Like three, 30, as you say, would probably be a pretty solid, you know, first year for someone out out on their own. But for me I still I didn't feel comfortable, like I always wanted to be um, and and it's not for the, it's not for the accolades, I don't think like it's not for the accolades, I don't think like it's not so that I can call myself the best agent on the peninsula. I've never been driven by that type of ego thing. It's just a challenge for me to be able to set myself a goal and try and achieve it. And I remember my first ever image, christmas party or something like that.
Speaker 2:I was speaking to an agent and he said that he earned $500,000. And I was like what Like? Are you kidding? Is that the type of money that we can earn? I didn't believe him. Eh, I still I didn't believe him at the time because I'm like that is ridiculous money. I'd be in minimum wage 80 grand, you know, 100 grand for rugby league, and to me, to be sort of talking, that type of money was crazy. But yeah, mate, it was a very big learning curve for me going out on my own, and I'm glad I did it. I'm 100% glad I did it, but it was very scary at the time, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Let's unpack some of that. You know, andrew, in lead generation. One thing about the greats like that they make it look easy, as if this just pops in all the time and then suddenly the greats are so good because they do make it look easy. But when you're learning it yourself from scratch, it's like where are they all, don't they? Just turn up and you get phone calls and you bounce to the next one. A really good example there of going out to claim your own doors is very different. What worked for you in claiming doors?
Speaker 2:Well, mate, I think it was just output, it was just volume I'd established a good, I guess, profile on the peninsula, I think. I think being a Dolphins football player and being the captain of the Dolphins for a long period of time, like that certainly helped me in terms of a lot of the relationships that I had, the people that I knew and that type of thing, and the rest mate was just reps for me of the relationships that I had, the people that I knew, and and and and that type of thing, and and and the rest mate was was just reps for me is the biggest thing I found is like I remember talking to a few people and listen, listening to a few things, and probably one of the biggest things I did you know massive, massive thanks to Justin Nickerson for this. I've always been big on that and whether it was rugby league and I was following someone and trying to mimic them and follow their game in in real estate. One guy that I really loved was Tony O'Doherty, um, and so I got Justin to to hook up a meeting with me and Tony and we I went to to to his office and you know good on him. He took the meeting and I know he's a very busy man, but he pulled out my phone and he went to the battery section of it where you can check where you spend all your time, yeah, and it said like Facebook, instagram, like you know all the normal things. Where his message was and I'll try it with an Irish accent you're not even at the fucking races man. Pretty much, mate.
Speaker 2:After that meeting I realised that the magic, you know, there was no secret pill. There's no, there's no, um, there's no secret answer to it, it's just the output. So that that, to me, set me on a really good path. I think, where I'm like, all right, yeah, look, there's, there's a lot of technique about it, there's a lot of, you know, when you talk about claiming doors and the strategy behind a core market and all that, I've only just got there with that type of stuff. But for me it was big, it was the output. It was just all right. I'm going to set a target, break down that target of how do I get there, and then, following that path and I've done that really well and that was probably the biggest thing for me is just the output.
Speaker 1:What disciplines did you bring over from sport that you're now realizing you need to bring into being a first-grade player in real estate?
Speaker 2:Probably resilience is one being able to get knocked back, keep going, get knocked back, keep going.
Speaker 2:That to me, is a big one.
Speaker 2:You deal with injuries, you deal with not making a team, you deal with a lot of those things in rugby league, but just discipline and commitment. I started my first NRL preseason out of school when I was 17 and I didn't debut until I was 22. So I did five years of bloody getting flogged more than anyone else in the whole squad before I was able to actually run on the paddock and call myself an NRL player. So I think the commitment and the discipline and the sacrifice that I made in that regard certainly helped me coming across, because I find the correlation and there's so many, you know discipline and the sacrifice that I made in that regard certainly helped me coming across, because I find the correlation and there's so many great sports people that transition into business and have success and I think that the core principles behind it are all the same. It's just bringing it over into a different industry and being able to set yourself a goal and being able to break that down and then hold yourself accountable and do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so true, and for me, looking at this story and seeing your growth come out through the team, it feels like you've got that expected behaviour correct, whereas a lot of people expect it to just happen and the company will do it for me, whereas in my entire world nothing happens unless I make it happen. I'm not waiting for anybody to come and save me here. If it's to be, it's up to me is one of those sayings that I love. But your expected behavior is good. Okay, it is hardcore. I've got to pick up that phone. I've got to pick my targets. Stick to the plans. You've got some very good people around you. The work going on ahead of you at the moment is just world-class. But you also realize you've got a chance at the title here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I know, mate. Honestly, it's funny because, like I said, I've never done anything for accolades in that space, even money. I'm probably one of the few agents that's never been driven by a financial thing. That's why it's hard for me to look at it and go how much money did I make or how much money do I want to make? I've been asked that question how much money do you want to make? What's enough for you? It's a hard one for me to answer because for me it's about going.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm very goal-driven, like if I set myself a target, I set my team a target, I'm very much driven around just being able to achieve that, and so that's, I think what sort of has gotten us to where we are. It's that mentality of going all right, what do you want to get, how do we get there? And here's how we do it. And now that I've got that team behind me, of of again, very similar growth minded people that are that are driven like that. They're both, they're both of them. I've got football backgrounds and they're, they're very similar in that way. We're very driven to to achieve, to achieve something special, um, and it's cool to be even, I guess, where we are now within, within the business and and the numbers that we're doing are great.
Speaker 2:And I feel like it's gone pretty quickly because I remember mate, like I said, output was a big thing for me, but along the way I've had some great people. I had Joel, I had Adam. Justin Nickerson has been a massive help for me. He's always been there for me and helped me. And mate yourself did the complete salesperson course with you. So, from a technique and I knew nothing about real estate nothing I knew no real estate agents, like people would always, especially when I started oh you know this guy, I'm like no, no idea, I don't know any agents. So I started completely fresh and that was, you know, 2019. So for me, it's been six years and now we've got a really cool business on the peninsula. That's exciting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great observation of you speaking there and from my perspective of interviewing people, be it from sporting or top business people in this country, there seems to be a transition that when you're in sport, it's a goal we want to win the grand final and then when it comes across to business, it sort of transitions from a goal to a business objective, and a business objective having a series of business objectives that you're reviewing feels different to how much money do I want to earn, to. If I achieved that amount of sales, we could pay out, we could buy, we could set up, we could do pay out, we could buy, we could set up, we could do becomes the true outcome of a new grand final, of wow, I'm capable of doing it. So, applying to yourself and the team and let's discuss that, you know, there you were solo agent. That was scary enough. Now you decide to put two around you and become an effective business unit. How?
Speaker 2:was that transition? It was awesome, to be honest, it was probably probably. I got to the point where I was doing around that seven, seven to 800 mark and I felt, like you know, I I definitely in order to take the next step and and, and you know, become that sort of successful agent that I wanted to be. I knew that I needed something and I knew that I needed someone, and it was. You know, I read to be. I knew that I needed something and I knew that I needed someone, and it was. You know, I read the book who, not how, and realized, well, I'm very much a visionary and I think I needed an integrator to come into my business. And that's what I found.
Speaker 2:And I went and found Sheldon, who joined me and, mate, he's very structured, he's very processed, he's very driven, he's got one of the best mindsets I've ever seen. And the reason I hired him actually was because 75 hard I don't know if you've heard of that challenge. It's. It's you gotta go 75 days without drinking, without eating, like a cheat meal, and you've got to train twice a day. Like there's so many things. I've tried it so many times I've I've never been able to do it because I love I feed, I love a beer, I love to enjoy myself and, mate, I've just never been able to do it. Whereas he amidst a bunch of footballers and everything we were going out, he wasn't drinking On the way home. Blokes were getting Maccas, he got mints. He'd have mints ready to heat up when he got home.
Speaker 2:The discipline side of it, I'm like he was working at the council and I and had no real estate background at all and I just said, like for me it was, I didn't need to find someone that was in real estate, I needed to find someone that had the same work ethic, same growth mindset and same discipline and all the traits that I felt not only was important in real estate but important for my business. And bringing him over was was huge. Um, and I think it set a bit of a blueprint for us. We've gone, when we do expand and we've done it a few times now, like we, we want high performers. I don't want to. I don't want to bring a, bring someone into the business that's that doesn't have the ambition to be the best version of themselves, whatever that is.
Speaker 2:Um, we've been very wary of that and and um, yeah, I think it's worked well, mate, like he's been awesome since bringing him in, and so is harrison. But harrison, over from kindred and easy, he's the exact same mate like very, very driven, very motivated, and when you, when you have a little unit of people like that, he makes going into the office right, um, and we've got a very, very high level of accountability. Like they chip me all the time, I chip them all the time, but it's all love, which is important because, yeah, we get on really well, and what's a good month of numbers.
Speaker 1:Now, like what's your expected behaviour for listings, appraisals and sales.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, mate, we sort of set ourselves a goal, myself and Sheldon. Our numbers were eight listings, eight sales and $120,000 worth of income, because I set myself a goal of 1.2 as a commission. But very quickly, you know, when we implemented some of the things into the business that I wanted to implement, and we brought on Harrison and we were tracking the way we track and we reset our goals to hit 160 a month and try and go for 1.6. And we're on track to do that at this point and that looks like probably 10 listings, 10 sales, 160 a month. I don't count Jan andb. Um, I'm not sure who taught me that, but someone taught me that and I've just run with it ever since. Don't count jan and feb need 160 a month for the other months.
Speaker 2:And yeah, we're on track, mate, which is good. And again, when I break it down and that drives me monthly is I do not want to hit, I do not want to miss those targets. So whenever, whenever we've reset them and we've had to reset them along the way and revise our goals so that we're challenging ourselves we really haven't missed. We went a seven-month period without missing a single target. I think we missed by about five grand once on the income, but other than that we hold ourselves very accountable within our business, which I think has been a massive game changer for us.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, and when we look at three people in harmony like that and 160.10 is 1.6, very simple. You've got clarity numbers, which I absolutely love. Final questions for you and a fantastic interview for anyone listening to this. What are you passionate about for the future in the way of progression? What do you feel you need to work on next as a team that's going to even further give you that gap difference in the marketplace, that there's a gap between you and them which protects your future. But what are you passionate about improving upon in 2025?
Speaker 2:um, I'm certainly one. One thing that we spoke about is expanding. We want to continue to provide a really high quality service to anyone that we come across um and and bringing the right person in. Again, like I said, high performance is a big key word for me and for our business and we want to continue to continue to improve, and that that's I think I've. You know, since 2019, it's been six, six years or five years that I've been out full-time on my own and each year, for me to improve and get better in terms of the numbers we're writing has been such a big goal for me, so that that's important.
Speaker 2:I never want to go backwards and again like that's gonna, that's gonna evolve over time. What? What drives me? Never want to go backwards and again like that's going to evolve over time. What drives me? I want to get into the sort of not the coaching space, but like, as in, probably more of a principle at some point, like that's probably my long-term goal is I love this stuff, like everything that I've learned and along the way, I think I've just proved that someone that can come into the industry with absolutely no knowledge at all, no background at all, but if you follow the right principles, which are very simple, as you mentioned, that you can achieve something. That's good, so I love that. I love passing that information on.
Speaker 2:Like I said, sheldon came from the council. Harrison came over from another business. I get a lot of fulfillment out of helping those boys progress in their own career, and so that's something that I'm probably pretty passionate about is finding another team member for for our group, um, and helping them be the best version of themselves, putting things in place so that they can achieve their own goals within my business. So, and, mate, ultimately what I've found is all of those things. It results in business for us because people, when you're sitting at a listing presentation or when you're out in the community, people can see that we are trying to be the best version of ourselves and that we do care about that type of thing. And, yeah, it's all very positive. That's probably the plans for us in 2025, mate, improve get better.
Speaker 1:Cameron a fantastic interview, not one edit just straight from the heart. Thank you for joining us on the program we Are Selling.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Lee mate, Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It was good to chat.
Speaker 1:Today's episode of we Are Selling was brought to you by Nexar. Nexar is the platform that is now partnering and delivering best-in-class real estate growth solutions that continue to perform over time. The Nexar platform has now partnered with some of our leading principals and teams in Australia. They are assisting with the lead generation engine of the company, agent loyalty and the growth of the rent roll through connective communication. Nexar is doing the heavy lifting on nurturing your database to generate a pipeline for your agents and BDMs to convert to listings, sales and new managements. Check the show notes and the link to episode 116, where there was a feature interview with Mr Mark Kempwell. Thank you for listening. I look forward to speaking to you next week. My name's Lee Woodward Goodbye.